Did you hear about Prop 8?

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Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  Guest on Wed May 27, 2009 1:29 am

Did you hear about this? I live in Southern California and people were protesting/marching in West Hollywood until really late tonight.

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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Wed May 27, 2009 5:57 am

YEP, I DID.
I DON'T REALLY GET THOSE PARADES, IS NOT LIKE ANYONE IS GOING TO LISTEN.
THERE'S ONE DAY HERE IN MEXICO THEY DO IT IN ALMOST IN ALL THE STATES
BUT, NOBODY REALLY CARES. THEY JUST DON'T GET IN THEY'RE WAY
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  greven on Wed May 27, 2009 9:00 am

You know this might be a retard question but cant you just go out of state and get married?
I mean straights go to vegas and get married there all the time. So can californian gays and lesbians do the same?
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Same-sex marriage

Post  Guest on Wed May 27, 2009 6:28 pm

Sure you can go to other places to get married but when you return to your own state where you live, the marriage will not be recognized. Currently only three states Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Iowa allow same-sex marriage. In September, so will Vermont and Maine (i did not know that) For example, i could go to Massachusetts, marry my partner there and come back to California and have it be as good as null and void. The only exception are those 18,000 couple that married before the law changed. Their marriages are still considered legal.

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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Wed May 27, 2009 8:07 pm

i just have ione question????' Neutral
why would you want to get married anyway, is like putting chains in your necks like dogs.
i think no one should be allowed to get married.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  greven on Wed May 27, 2009 8:11 pm

Ale. that is a pretty narrowminded point of view.
Marriage is a lot of things, it is the ultimate display of faith and love, a recognization that you have found love and you wish to stay with the one you love for the rest of your life. I would like to be married one day, to have that sertainty that this was more that just a passing time, this was a life long dedication to love.
That is the romantic side of things but there is also a practical point. If a married person dies, the partner inherits, if they arent married the family gets it all.
And it is sadly a truth that many families dont give much to the partner in cases of same sex relationships.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Wed May 27, 2009 8:30 pm

if by narrow minded you mean i don't belive in "same sex marriage", that's not what i meant. Mad
i think marriage is a way to control people. this comes from a girl whose parents are the
always love you type. Rolling Eyes

i really meant no one in this world should be allowed to get married.
i' m a bit cynical i know!! Rolling Eyes but hey that's my opinion, you have you're own!!!!!
as for inherit your and you're partner's stuff, you can always make you're will.
that's what we do in the office!!!!!! (i work in a law firm)
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  greven on Wed May 27, 2009 8:48 pm

I was not just talking same sex marriages.
clearly you yourself is not the always love you type as you so smoothly put it.
So it makes sence you dont believe in marriage, but should us foolish always love you people not be allowed to marry? Isnt that where the real control would start? How can you say that mariage controls people, and that makes it wrong, in one second and in the next tell us that we shouldnt even have the choice? So we are no longer allowed to chose to be "controlled" instead you just wish to control us from the very beginning.
Do you see the dillema in what you are saying? And how is marriage control? Yes you are less "free" when you get married, but some people settle down as they grow older, not because society tells them to but because they grow mature and leaves the foolish life of yuth behind them. I want to settle down one day, should I not have that option because it will limit me? Maybe I want that limit to be there, to have a boundry a space I can call my safe heaven, my home, my base, my own.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Wed May 27, 2009 9:06 pm

Ale, I think that firm you work at is hurting you..... I'm only kinda not joking...lol


I think if ppl want to get married...hell they wanted to. So it wouldn't be control if it was willingly done. Right? And I kinda have to go with Greven on this one...not allowing ppl to get married from the beginning is already a form of control. I'm guessing you mean that marriage should just not exist?

Bryter; I didn't know that about vermont either!! DAMN CALIFORNIA! The first notch against Cali being great. I love this state but it makes me mad Mad sometimes. I was reading the newspaper about tonight, I'm not very hopeful about it either tho.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Wed May 27, 2009 10:09 pm

yes, probably my job is hurting my spirit.
i do belive in love(family, friends, etc) but when people get married they forget (or at least tent to forget)the excitement of being with them and become accustomed to them which is not the same thing and produces a lack of communication and a life full of cold sights or probably hate in some occasions. i probably can't explain myself well. and i'm not really sure i said what i wanted to.

and as for the collar stuff, if marriage doesn't work and you're a XXI century guy/girl what do you do????
you get divorced, right?????
now i ask, what's the point of getting married if you're going to get divorced anyway.

i accept constructive criticism.....
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Wed May 27, 2009 10:18 pm

and sometimes i think:

i'm probably just saying some random bullshit. anyways let's see what happenes. Suspect
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Wed May 27, 2009 11:43 pm

Ppl don't get married with the thought "Let's go for it, we'll just end up divorced anyway" I'm certain that no one wants to go into a relationship that they know is going to fail with the exception of two reasons; The MAKE it fail- as in self sabotage because they are running away and the other being that they are pure evil beings out to hurt others. People get divorced for many different reasons but to lump it up into one reason it would be indiscernible differences- meaning they no longer see eye to eye. Love can still be in the picture however but they just don't get along anymore. When deciding to get married I highly doubt that either one of the two "to-be-wed" wants the marriage to fail.

I'm not sure that I completely agree with you on the whole "people forget how to passionately love after they've gotten married" because as much as I do agree that the two people become accustomed to each other, that does not immediately mean that they no longer have a powerfully burning fire that epitomizes their passion for one another. Isn't that part of what happens in ANY marriage anyway? Two people are so comfortable enough with each other that nothing is embarrassing anymore. Not going to the bathroom, picking your nose (hopefully with a tissue tho) farting, puking, GROWING OLD (hahaha), bad breath in the morning, stinky feet, smelly clothes, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING becomes mundane and acceptable and NORMAL, part of the relationship. That this person you let into your life, your heart and being, knows so much about you that you don't even know yourself and still completely loves you for it...no matter how bad you smell. Laughing Yes, you get used to one another but that isn't necessarily a bad side of marriage. Marriages fail when two people can no longer see eye to eye, when small mole hills become mountains that neither party can let go of, when there is more resentment then love, when people decide that the problems are no longer worth fixing. No relationship is perfect, there will ALWAYS be something the two cannot agree on but if that becomes THE problem then the relationship has no future any longer. Communication is a big part but I think that as time goes by communication should become easier, not harder. Mostly because as that time goes by people begin to learn more and more about each other. However that is not to say that one will learn everything about their partner. To me, that is absolutely impossible. You will never cease to learn from the person you are in love with and whom you love. Overall communication is tricky, it only works when both parties are open to it. if not then there is no hope. Once again, they need to be able to see eye to eye even if they still stick to their differences.

But also, I do believe that that burning fire of love that two people share can begin to falter and slowly fade away. Just because two people are now married to one another does NOT mean that they can stop TRYING, doesn't mean the excitement can go away because one believes that it will always be there. The fire NEEDS to be fed in order for it to stay alive. That is one reason people get divorced. Because they stop trying, because they think it will always be there and therefore they can just sit back and become lazy. Even if you love someone and they know you love them, they STILL want to HEAR it, they still want a token of your love, for you to show them how much they mean to you and how much you love them (and it's a BONUS if one DOESN'T EFFING DO THIS ONLY ON BIRTHDAYS AND ANNIVERSARIES OR WHEN YOU'RE SORRY, lol). Its not something you forget to do or can allow yourself to do once you're married. The flowers, the candies, the adventure, the passion, the excitement, the cheesiness, corniness, the love AND THE EXPRESSION OF THAT LOVE, MUST BE SHOWN! IT NEEDS to stay alive otherwise what you said happens...people forget and then divorce. To say "I love you, you're the world to me" just because you want to, because you feel it, is a wonderful feeling for both the lover and the beloved.


Last edited by eSilva on Wed May 27, 2009 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Wed May 27, 2009 11:44 pm

Damn, i did not notice how much I had written..... Shocked
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Thu May 28, 2009 12:00 am

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

i don't even know what to say, i'm going to analyze what you just said.
my grandpa' would have said BULLSHIT or something like that, i appreciate the time and efford you took to write this.
i will think about it and let U know later
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Thu May 28, 2009 12:20 am

Laughing take your time Smile and your grandpa sounds like my dad....they may get along!
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  greven on Thu May 28, 2009 3:08 am

I dont have much to add to Silva's Monster post, but I will say this:
I dont believe you have to be married to "grow accustomed to one another".
I mean doesnt the same thing happen if you live with a BF/GF for many years? I doubt that marriage somehow magicly makes a couple more lazy.
You just dont hear about those couples breaking up because it is somehow "not a big deal" as they were never married.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Thu May 28, 2009 3:32 am

ha, I hadn't thought we could bring relationships outside a marriage into the picture. In that case, it's completely possible. Of course one doesn't need to be married and so the same thing still holds true. If two ppl don't work at their relationship it's not like whatever differences there are, are going to be resolved on their own. From personal experience it is VERY easy to become accustomed to someone you've been with for years even without marriage. However the title of being marriage can certainly change a few aspects of the overall relationship.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Thu May 28, 2009 2:10 pm

i understand.
and about prop 8:
in mexico "gay marriages" are not allowed, and i don't think they will be. at least for a long time.
the constitution says:
*paraphrasing* the institution known as marriage has an obbjective, "reproduction" Shocked
for me that's totally weird. Neutral
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  tara on Thu May 28, 2009 6:59 pm

Eh, I agree that marriage is an outdated practice that doesn't really apply to society today. It made more sense in ye olden times because of inheritance. To make sure that your kid was your kid, and that you were giving your title, your wealth, to your own blood you had to pay for the use of a vagina, basically. Nowadays that's not as important, especially with DNA tests that you can get on Geraldo.

That said, if I were to find the right person, and wanted to marry them, I would. Even if we were in an open relationship and seeing other people. You can do whatever the heck you want with marriage, and the LGBT want that right as well. To get married, get divorced, pay alimony. People have to learn to separate it from religion. You have to remember it's also about taxes and being able to bring someone over from another country, etc.etc. It's not ALL about the love.

The LGBT community want to be accepted in society and so they are trying to change laws. I think I've said it here before! But: We can't change minds, but we can change laws. By changing laws today we are giving cues to future generations. Can you imagine a baby being born in a world where everyone can marry each other, no matter the gender? With no distinction between anyone? How differently they will look at the world? Beautiful.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  alain1609 on Thu May 28, 2009 7:57 pm

aplause~clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap~
grat speech, i'm not sure i agree but it's a great speech cheers
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  Valsira on Thu May 28, 2009 10:51 pm

In New Zealand there's actually no legal point in getting married 'cause you have exactly the same rights just from living together for...some number of years, can't remember how many. Only difference is you have to be married to adopt as a couple. We have civil unions for same-sex couples but not marriage yet =/

I personally would never get married anyway basically because I hate it when family values people say marriage is the foundation of society and blame all of society's problems on marriage breakdown, which I think is bullshit. And as I say, no legal reason to get married, and no religious reason for me so, *shrug* My sister and her partner have never gotten married and they have a kid and everything. But for some people, including gays, marriage is important, so they should have the right to do that.
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  Guest on Thu May 28, 2009 11:52 pm

I don't know the difference/similarities between civil unions and marriages but i would like to know that there is some legality to my relationships in case of death, illness, children, what have you for my own peace of mind/civil protection. Ale, i wonder if instead of a will, a revocable living trust is instead the better way to go. Also, I'm not married and i'm not planning on getting married anytime soon but I do know that marriages can end (or implode) not only from the aforementioned ways but also from being married to someone and then realizing that they are not going to change or grow ever. People get married fast and never find out what their partner is really like until its too late. did someone already say this, i dont know.


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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  tara on Thu May 28, 2009 11:57 pm

bryterlayter wrote:hey, e, it's not only the length of your post that caught my attention (it's a very thoughtfully crafted analysis on marriage), its your careful use of expletives. You are such a lady. I am not. Therefore, i will say it for you: Fuck, fuck, fucking ay! There! Glad i got that off my chest. Very Happy

I think it's cos someone said somewhere this forum is for youngens as well, so swearing isn't liked or something why she didn't swear, but yeah. XD
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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  Guest on Fri May 29, 2009 12:08 am

oh, i know, but i just like to tease her when i can! lol.

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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

Post  eSilva on Fri May 29, 2009 12:41 am

Bryter..did you just type in "Ay" after fuck? hahahahaha. I didn't swear not because it isn't allowed but because I don't see swear words as the correct words that should be used to emphasize ones point. If one can speak eloquently enough then one shouldn't need swear words! lol. And I was not under the impression that you were teasing me....hmmm.... Razz also it's not like I don't swear in reality! It's just when I write or want to make a point. Smile


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Re: Did you hear about Prop 8?

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