Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  Fly Hue on Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:30 pm

Awww. <3 Man, that is really cool. I can, like, appreciate that. I'm kind of interested in seeing if they really do as well as you say they do. That is... not that I don't trust your ethos, Greven. ^^;;
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  greven on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:08 am

I could thrown you a link but I really doubt you will understand any of it Razz
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:07 pm

Let's see...My favorite lesbian themed movies are Go Fish, Better Than Chocolate, Bound (yes, i know), But i'm a cheerleader, Foxfire, and Gia. I heard Aimee and Jaguar is good but I still haven't seen it. Another good historical gay film is Bent, based on the play. I also remember liking the movie Trick. I wish they made more lesbian themed films. I can't think of a recent one. I've seen quite a lot of them, though, thanks to my girlfriend at the time, who every Saturday dragged me out to all the independent theatres and plays.

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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  tara on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 am

YEAH but we don't know if they were thrown in because they want to seem liberal, do we? We can't say we know their motivations. So I guess if it's they don't have any definition, as you said, characters that are just there?
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  Lunaris on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:31 pm

The whole gays in media thing is a topic I, for one, am glad to see coming about a bit more often. Yeah, a lot are token, they're there just to be there, with their sexuality being of little or no consequence to the series. But I guess it's fine. If you did a story on one of my best friends and I happened to feature, my sexuality might be brought up, but would have no bearing on the story since the story is not mine. I'd be the token there, with or without depth given.

So I guess I have an easier time accepting this when I think of it from a writer's point of view.

Although I still feel, and always will feel, that outting Dumbledore as gay post-series was a cheap marketing gimmick. If it wasn't stated in the series, it would probably have been best left to speculation amongst the fans. Instead, I suddenly had gay friends buying up the whole series just for the fact that one of the most popular characters was really gay.

It made me glad I didn't ever get too big into Harry Potter. At first it just wasn't my thing, but then Rowling seemed to start doing things just for the marketing publicity. I don't know her real motivations, but...it doesn't sit well with me, and never will until we sit down and talk. That's likely to happen.

I liked the way it was integrated into the first SaGa Frontier game better (Technically Romancing SaGa 4, but the first three were unreleased state-side). In the game, you're free to pick from any of seven main characters and you set off on their own individual quest. One of the characters, Asellus, is a half-mystic (Mystics being the equivalent of vampires) who must find her place in the world and either throw off her powers and become human, embrace her half-breed nature, or rise up and overthrow her lord and take her place as the ruler of the mystics.

The whole story can be played through without anyone being made to think one way or the other. In fact, the first time I played through I thought it was a charming story and nothing more. Skip to high school, and the months after I figure myself playing for the home team. I look back at the story one day while I'm playing again and it's like "Oh, I see..."

Asellus and another character, White Rose, grow attached to one another. Asellus tries to justify it as feeling like one would for a sister. Zozma, another mystic, expresses confusion for why she denies it. I never got that before I understood love.

Another character, Ildon, and an NPC, Rastaban, are gay lovers. It's never actually mentioned in-game, but is stated rather clearly in source materials released in Japan. The whole of the mystic race seems quite inclined towards bisexual behavior and openness about it, in retrospect.

What really makes the story great for me is that the whole thing is told in such a way that if you don't get it...it's not going to bother you. If a kid reads it, they will figure what's most convenient and go on playing. Later on, you look back and see the bigger picture. It's not outright stated like some selling point, and the only big deal ever made of the thing has only been by fans who went fanatic over it for awhile after realizing what was going on.

The story is about a girl finding her place in life. Her own sexuality becomes token in the matter. I thought it was a great way to tell the story, and I wish more writers would do things like this.

Sadly, the game is incomplete, a victim of a rushed release. From what I can tell, part of the rush wound up cutting out a huge portion of Asellus' quest, including a potential option for rebirth and redemption from her half-mystic blood. So much potential for beauty that will perhaps never be realized since it did not sell so well on western shores, overshadowed by its big brother Final Fantasy VII, and to a lesser extent by Final Fantasy Tactics.

I could go on for days and days about my love of the game, and especially of Asellus and her character, but I think I've said enough.
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  greven on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:50 pm

Hold your horses there girl.
I for one AM big on Harry Potter and I disagree with you a lot on the cheap marketing thing. She didnt go out and said: "Oh yeah Dumbledore is gay. KTHXBAI!"

It happened in an interview:

The question was: Did Dumbledore, who believed in the prevailing power of love, ever fall in love himself?

JKR: My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. [ovation.] ... Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extent? But, he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him. Yeah, that's how i always saw Dumbledore. In fact, recently I was in a script read through for the sixth film, and they had Dumbledore saying a line to Harry early in the script saying I knew a girl once, whose hair... [laughter]. I had to write a little note in the margin and slide it along to the scriptwriter, "Dumbledore's gay!" [laughter] "If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!"

As I see that isnt as much poblicity as much as it is just information, and lets be honest some of us should had been able to figure it out after reading Rita screeters book, she had it written all over it. None of us just ever looked in that direction.
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  Lunaris on Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:32 pm

I'm going to state right now that I never have and never will say that Harry Potter is a bad series or that Rowling is a bad writer. Let me clarify a bit more what I did mean.

1. I just never got into the books. Fantasy and sorcery are, by and large, so overdone that to me it was unappealing.

2. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone = Star Wars.

3. Rowling herself has been a bit unreadable to me. Sometimes she seems like a marvelous and fascinating person, sometimes quite the opposite. I've always had a harder time reading her and her motivations than I have with some other authors.

Sometimes things seem to fall in line, sometimes they don't. I pick up one kind of vibe with one interview, and another the next.

This particular bit wtih Dumbledore set off some rather unpleasant vibes with me, and still does, and probably will for a long time. I can't really go with anything but my gut on this. It always did seem to me that Rowling would do a lot for marketing. Fine and fair, but some of the things it seemed were a bit much.

Maybe I'm just over-analyzing it a bit too much. I don't know. I just wanted to clarify I have nothing personal against her or the series. It's just not my thing, and some things rub me the wrong way. Little can be done to convince me that it wasn't a bit convenient to let it out then and there. If it had been some months later, maybe. I guess interviews are convenient in themselves for things though.

I don't know, and I won't pretend I have any answers. But I trust my gut a lot. Smile

It's a pretty gut too.
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:56 pm

honestly, i could never get into Harry Potter either. I just found it boring. I couldn't embrace the Harry Potter mythology and i think you have to be able to do that to enjoy it.

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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  greven on Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:03 pm

I dont really like it too much anymore, but that is mostly because Harry survived book 7 something he really shouldnt have. If one read the books and figured out the "twist" like this cat did, then one would know that Harry HAD to die. But instead it got a serious case of "but the hero cant die!??!" and suddently he didnt have to die even though all logic spelled that he should.


SPOILER!

Seriously: if you cant get killed because you dont want to die then all you gotta do is send a fucking suicide dude against voldemort and you win easy. It is just retarted as all hell and the biggest copout I have seen in a while.
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Re: Gays and lesbians in games/movies/music etc

Post  alain1609 on Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:49 pm

then, i'm part of the club too.
but i read the book and i could even finish it which is rare if i don't like the book but i think that her technique or writing style is pretty good just not the plot.

if you like horror/mistery/fantasy books, you should read THE CURSE OF THE BLUE FIGURINE, by JOHNNY DIXON is really good.
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