Relationships as a pre-op transgender

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Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:01 am

Before I start- hi. My name's Jason; I'm a female-to-male transgender who has yet to go under the knife.
Also- transgender is a term used for someone living as the opposite gender who has not been operated upon. Transexual is a term used for someone who's been operated upon to become the opposite gender to their birth gender. And transvestite is a term for someone who likes to dress as the opposite gender but not live as it.
Just to make sure you know what I mean when I refer to myself as transgender but also use the term transexual.

Anyway. It can be difficult to meet gay partners anyway- let's face it, a lot of the time it can be difficult to meet straight partners too! But my issue is finding either (I am bisexual) when people's immediate impression is that I'm of the opposite gender I want to be viewed as.
As a woman, I'm very attractive. I'm femanine, full lips, delicate face, legs that go way up and curves. Of course, living as a man, all of this means that I still look very femanine- and unless I get facial surgery (which is not a standard part of the transexual procedure) I always will.
My point is- forgetting intimacy (of which there can be minimal, since I can't stand being seen in a state of undress, for obvious reasons I think) how is one supposed to try to date when people will see the woman I'm not? I suppose the only way is to seek out open-minded individuals who are attracted to both genders- but if it's difficult to find a partner only attracted to one gender, how am I to find a partner attracted to both?

Or perhaps I should stay single for the duration of my gender realignment- although, given the waiting lists for any sort of specialist medical care here in England, that could be years. (Literal years.) Could anyone blame me for wanting to be able to date during this time? I'm in my twenties- I don't want to be tied down, but I don't want at least the option of meeting Miss or Mr right either.

Your thoughts please.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  ReiDavidson on Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:09 am

Hey, from experience there are both girls and guys out there that dream of making love to insanely pretty men. I personally find them fascinating and wanna be rude and ask for pics. XD

One of my friends, she's a girl and she's straight and she loves pretty guys. The prettier the better. But she's tried girls and its not for her. It's guys, it's the weirdest thing.

I have guy friends who are also so pretty that they're mistaken for girls all the time. This is a huge source of annoyance for them, but in my experience, never stopped them from getting a girlfriend.

In a way guys are lucky. If a guy looks like a girl, there's a certain mystique and fascination people have and girls will still date him. If a girl looks like a guy... eeeeeh, usually everyone says she's fugly. XD

But my point is, don't worry. <:3 Someone out there will love you no matter how you look. And I'm willing to bet there's someone super special who will love you because of the way you look and not despite it.

Now, some ideas to say "HEY I'M A DUDE, DUDE." At least until your transition is complete. Well short hair's an obvious one, which I'm sure you've done. Maybe clothes that you never see girls (except those darn lesbians) wear? I'm not hideously familiar with guy fashion but there has to be some stuff... Maybe someone else will have some suggestions in that area.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:28 am

My hair's pretty short; I'd like to take it shorter, but I'm job-hunting and unfortunately, transgender stuff tends to make it... complicated. So I have to, well, go to the interviews as a woman; so my hair can't be incredibly short. Unfortunately. But it's still short enough that I can spike up.
I also do wear men's shoes, trousers and shirts; of course, with my chest bound. (Although my figure does mean that even the best clothes for "passing" don't always cut it. -_- ) I often wear a short-sleeve shirt over a tank top (the tank top's to help make the form work a bit better.) The clothes in general couldn't really be much more manly unless they literally had manly stuff written across them. And that's just... Eurgh.

As for being "pretty"- well, I have no doubt that when I'm a full man there'll be people out there who find it appealing. But right now I'm just at a confusing stage for those around me, because if a person's attracted to me, it's probably because they're attracted to my femanine qualities and are viewing me as a woman. And of course, I don't want to be anyone who doesn't view me as who I really am.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:47 pm

I am afraid this is an issue you will be facing all your life.
Everyone who meets a "Gender bender" gets confused ass all hell.
Going from male to female not so much because they, for obvious reasons, look more like girls than guys.
But people going from F to M will always seem more girly than manly, unless a beard comes into play of course. But till that point is reached, you will seem more girl than guy.

I am actually interested here.
What does "the switch" from F to M feature in terms of the actual change and "staying manly"?
I might sound like a jerk but trust me here, I am just trying to get info here. I am incredibly curious and I believe that I cant be a good contributer to a discussion if I dont know as much as possible.
If you dont want to talk about it then its okay though, as I guess it is kind of personal.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:15 pm

I have absolutely no problem with talking about it- if I did I wouldn't have made the thread! xP I'm not really sure what you mean, though- do you mean what's the medical process, with hormones etc? Or something else?
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:12 pm

Jase wrote:I have absolutely no problem with talking about it- if I did I wouldn't have made the thread! xP I'm not really sure what you mean, though- do you mean what's the medical process, with hormones etc? Or something else?

I was thinking about the medical process yeah.
The thing is that just removing the airbags is hardly all the work is it?
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Emilyelizabethx on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:26 pm

I have to say good on you for having the guts to go through with this!
Very Happy
Perhaps you should find some Panssexual people. If I'm anything, which I have no idea what I am, I'd say I was Panssexual- attracted to personality more than gender. They also don't really concentrate on looks but focus mainly on personality. Very Happy
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:44 pm

The massive surgery is penile construction; obviously there's hormone therapy and yes, breast removal; and here there's also extensive psychological analysis, and you legally can't get the operation without a gender specialist and an overall mental health specialist putting onto your medical records, within a certain amount of time of the op, that it's right for you.
But, medically speaking, penile construction is the hard bit, along with removing the womb etc; it's complicated and long. To be honest I'm not going to go into too much detail- partly because I'm not that knowledgable on it myself.
(The technical term is "phalloplasty" if you really want to look into it.)

Em- Actually, yes, pansexual would sum me up best- I'm primarily attracted to people on a mental level as opposed to a physical one. Although I can appreciate an attractive person as much as the next guy!
And thank you!
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Emilyelizabethx on Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:06 pm

Jase wrote:The massive surgery is penile construction; obviously there's hormone therapy and yes, breast removal; and here there's also extensive psychological analysis, and you legally can't get the operation without a gender specialist and an overall mental health specialist putting onto your medical records, within a certain amount of time of the op, that it's right for you.
But, medically speaking, penile construction is the hard bit, along with removing the womb etc; it's complicated and long. To be honest I'm not going to go into too much detail- partly because I'm not that knowledgable on it myself.
(The technical term is "phalloplasty" if you really want to look into it.)

Em- Actually, yes, pansexual would sum me up best- I'm primarily attracted to people on a mental level as opposed to a physical one. Although I can appreciate an attractive person as much as the next guy!
And thank you!

Oh god, that sounds really painful! Is it expensive? Sad The bravery of people astounds me sometimes!
Yes, I rarely ever go for looks (though I don't mind doing window shopping XD) people have all said my exes were really ugly Shocked I didn't think they were, obv, but I only saw their personalities so I didn't pay much attention to their physical appearance XD
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:29 pm

I didnt know that there was something called Pansexual but I might be so too, because I have never really been interested in looks when it comes to partners, though I am only attracted to the girls.
I just dont really care about the looks when it comes to them, I can see a girl is hot sure, but I dont really care.

I am actually quite relieved that you have to take some mental tests to get the procedure done. I just think that there are the risk of "insane" people getting the operation because their mental condition is so unstable.
I will agree that the operation sounds painful, but I do believe that the operation that removes the whomp is the most important, that is what brings things to an end. It throws the final stone in at the window and breaks through to the point of no return.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:45 pm

Pansexuality literally means that you can be attracted to a person regardless of gender- including transgender and transvestite- so only liking the ladies sort of... means you're not it. xP Ironically, my sexuality will literally change once I get the final op, because I'm technically asexual at the moment- I have no interest in sex in this body. *shrug* But I identify as a man, so I don't take it into account much.

And yes- the psychoanalasys is important, although it's also a huge pain in the behind, because after the general psychological tests, you have to be referred to a gender specialist which deals with the whole country (unless you have the money to go private, which most people don't.) That takes a VERY long time just to get seen. -_-;
But yes- the wait, the pain and the "limbo stages" will all be worth it in the end. At the end of it, to be a man in almost every way; and to be viewed as nothing but unless you choose to tell people... It's worth it, a thousand times over.
The recovery will be tough- but as I said, I'd go through several times what I will if I had to. I'd go through twice as much if I could have it happen tomorrow, instead of waiting on medical records to go back and forth and then sitting in a waiting list. x_x
At the end of the day- it'll improve my quality of life and happiness by a huge amount. Wouldn't most people go through with a painful operation if it did that?
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:17 pm

For a problem that could be solved by a one time painful experience? I dont know if I would.
Operations are scary, usualy there are "risks" with these things, and I was never good with % risks.
But again, I have already made it clear that I cannot get into the mindset here.
The way I see it, this is a way for you to become "whole" as a person and an individual.
As I have never experienced ANYTHING that can ever be compared to what you have been going through all your life.
I am just happy that you can get this procedure so you can move on in your life.

If you dont mind me asking: How far in the process are you?
Are you done with the mental stuff? Waiting for the operation? or?
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:01 pm

I've been through the psychological analasis; but I'm on the waiting list for the gender specialists in London. I don't know how long the waiting list is, but realistically speaking, it's probably going to be between six months and two years. So unfortunately I'm very much in a "limbo" state.
Once I get to the gender specialist, I'll have to live for two years fully as a man before I'll be allowed to be operated upon. (Which will be... interesting, with my build. xD) So you're looking at perhaps five years until all the operations are done and I've fully recovered.

...Not that I mind discussing it- I don't!- but I'm amused by how far from the original topic we've moved. xD
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:23 am

Sometimes you just have to go with the flow and let the discussion lead the way to salvation... or cookies.
While I agree that living in lembo must be... strange, I would say that going from F to M over night would be far more scary than anything else.
This is no tiny thing we are talking about here, and I do think the best way is to ease into it.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Fly Hue on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:29 am

Me, just returning to the subject of relationships....
I by no means want to sound like I'm saying, "Only other Transsexual people should date Transsexuals." But speaking personally if I were going through what you are going through I would aim for dating other transgendered people, whether they are planning to change or not. Just the sense that they would UNDERSTAND what you are going through, and that it would be completely hypocritical for them to not be accepting of your transformed body. Of course, if you can find someone who was born in their right body to love you for who you are, that's great! Emotionally though, it may be more fulfilling to date other transgendered people. Though I know I am a woman and I identify as a lesbian, I know deep down inside that if the person I loved felt that she was really a he, I would not leave his side. I believe all people to some extent possess a level of pansexuality that is separate from their usual feelings of being straight, gay, bi, etc. From the very start when I was still confused and trying to sort out my sexuality, I knew that I would not be devastated if I just happened to fall in love with a man, and I still feel that way though I know I want a female partner if any partner at all.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:54 am

Greven- I completely agree, the whole process should be taken slowly- but the worst thing is just waiting whilst nothing's moving forwards. Since all I'm doing right now is sitting in a waiting list, that's sort of where I am- I'm not doing anything to move me further to the goal except moving up that list, there's nothing I need to adjust to gradually happening now- so this whole time I'd happily skip.

As for dating other transexuals... I don't know, I hate the idea to be honest. I mean- not of dating other transexuals, but of focusing promarily on them. For one thing, I'd mostly only be dating people online, and I just don't find online relationships very rewarding (although the chances of being viewed as a woman are a LOT slimmer.) There's no "transgender groups" around here- I know, I checked- so there'd be no real way of meeting other transgenders in the area- and I'm inclined to think they're relatively scarce around here anyway.
For another thing- I hate the idea of being hesitant to make a move on someone because they're NOT transgender. It's something I'm very open about- out of necessity, really- so if someone can't deal they probably won't hang around anyway. I know they wouldn't be able to truly understand what I'm going through- but if they accept it, that's enough, and they won't stay in contact if they don't.
*shrug* I dunno. Dating is complicated enough as it is. xD
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Fly Hue on Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:09 am

Like I said, those were just what my personal feelings would be in that situation. I would be looking for someone who has experienced the same things as me, and if you feel that is not the appropriate route for you that's just fine! I'm not suggesting at all that you should stray away from majority of people who feel their body is the right one for them.

And boy are you right about dating being complicated enough already. DX My heart really goes out to people in your situation. It sounds really tough and I can't imagine having to suffer that. It makes me feel glad though that I am a woman, even if I'm not a 'conventional' woman.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:46 am

I've always had a knack for attracting people I have absolutely no interest in- so many times I've had a close friend who developed a crush on me, and ironically, that seems to be the only thing which has carried over. xD (Annoying? GOD yes.)

If we had some sort of transgender group nearby, it's definately something I'd consider and look into- as I said, I checked when I was first "coming out". The only one I found, both the website and e-mail were out of date. *shrug* So really, it'd be impossible to do even if I wanted to. xP
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  ReiDavidson on Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:48 am

I've dated a MtF transgender. I have no problem with it. So at least we know non-transgender/sexual people can be open minded enough to date people who are transgender/sexual.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Jase on Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:38 pm

Oh, I know- whilst most of my friends sort of boggle a bit at the idea (including my female straight friend, who's partner's exploring his gender and is cross-dressing a lot to express it, which is fun) I do have a friend who'd completely accept it if the right person came along.
It's just a case of finding those people, really; and hoping they can view me as a male despite my body.
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Emilyelizabethx on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:06 pm

greven wrote:Sometimes you just have to go with the flow and let the discussion lead the way to salvation... or cookies.
While I agree that living in lembo must be... strange, I would say that going from F to M over night would be far more scary than anything else.
This is no tiny thing we are talking about here, and I do think the best way is to ease into it.

Agreed. This is a hugggee step. Especially as its not just transforming the body, but the mind too. I really hope it goes okay Jase. Smile

On pansexuality- pansexual= gender blind. Don't see gender at all. Just personality and things. Smile
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:10 pm

Emilyelizabethx wrote:

On pansexuality- pansexual= gender blind. Don't see gender at all. Just personality and things. Smile

Well then I gues I am not Pansexual after all Smile

I do however have a very low sexdrive for a man my age, you can rarely have a conversation with someone my age (19 btw) without sex popping up withing 5 minuttes. What a Face
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Emilyelizabethx on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:27 pm

greven wrote:
Emilyelizabethx wrote:

On pansexuality- pansexual= gender blind. Don't see gender at all. Just personality and things. Smile

Well then I gues I am not Pansexual after all Smile

I do however have a very low sexdrive for a man my age, you can rarely have a conversation with someone my age (19 btw) without sex popping up withing 5 minuttes. What a Face

Hahaha. Very Happy That's so true.
I think my little 13 y o bro is the worst. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  Skyangel on Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:52 am

Hi Jase,

Oh wow, You've had it hard haven't you! My heart always goes out to transgender people of all types because I can understand the mental and emotional strain you guys must have had to come through. As one or two others have already pointed out, there IS always somebody out there for you, it's just a matter of finding them. It sounds like a corny old line, but it is only in the last few months while I've been really looking into this side of things that i have come across so many lovely stories with happy endings. There are so many TV movies highlighting cases with negative endings that I find it depressing watching them! I mentioned in a post before tho about the doc on the 'pregnant man', about Thomas and Nancy. As you live in England too you might have seen it. They met in a gym while working out, and Nancy said she really liked Tracy from the start before she decide to become Thomas; she then smiled and said, 'she never really did ever dress like a girl anyway so it hasn't made much difference'. Ithought that was really sweet and sums up that sex is not the whole point of any relationship, just a part of it. I think it is also worth bearing in mind that people generally have a very fixed idea about what sex is. One always assumes you need a round peg in a round hole to give and achieve satisfaction, but there are in fact so many different ways to pleasure and be pleasured by your partner that the pleasure is not lost just approached differently. The important thing I think here is that being transgender is not about sex, it is about identity, and when two people meet and fall in love it is their identities that are defining the relationship they have and not the aesthetics. Crudely put it would be like saying only people in wheelchairs go out with people in wheelchairs. There is of course a certain logic and sense to it as like understands like better, but for a transgender to find another transgender they are compatible with is thinning down the choices a little. Even hetreo's will meet many possible partners before finding that special one.
I think the internet is a great way to meet people via chatrooms etc. and give you a good chance to let potential partners get to know you before you spring the surprise. The majority of us just don't want to be lonely, so finding someone that we love chatting to and sharing stuff, someone that makes us happy and also knowing we can make them happy too are the things that bind us together. When you mention the transgender issue they will no doubt have to look it up, and be shocked, but after a few days of missing your mails etc. and with no obligation to you I think they will come back, and once they are used to the idea I think it would possess less and less probs if they were really interested in you.
I think also maybe you should try placing an ad in one of the local free newspapers under the gay section. Gay people to my mind are far more open minded towards all sexually different people, probably because we have all suffered the same sort of sadnessess,fears and rejections etc. where as hetreo's tho generally accepting now are prob not going to answer an ad under 'men seeking women' if they see the term transgender in the ad! I think bi would be interested and gay girls who see sex as a low priority, and as Emily says the pansexual which would give you a nice selection to choose from.
Just to finish, someone remarked about what turns people on taking all sorts of combinations. A male friend of mine who has had a lot of girlfriends in the past said to me the other day that he now finds 'girls with dicks a real turn-on'. I couldn't help smiling because I've always thought he seemed so straight, and I have no idea what he has been watching but the combination of happily having breasts and a penis just seems too strange even for me! I can only think these must be half-stage transexuals! But as long as everybody is happy! lol Smile

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Re: Relationships as a pre-op transgender

Post  greven on Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:09 am

I have actually been meaning to bring up the topic of the socalled Shemales.
They hardly fall under gay's or lesbians and its about half a transgender. So what is the deal here?
Does anyone know any she males who might be able to educate us here?

The fact that he finds "chicks with dicks a real turn on" does not make him gay... But Shemales are a turn on for me too, there is a sertain "this is so wrong" factor about it when you are watching shemale porn or things like that, and that turns me on.
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