What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

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What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:43 am

Mission statement? Edict? Pet peeve? What to call this.

A lot of us got into drawing LGBT comics because we couldn't find what we wanted. In general (or not so generally if you like!) what do you not want to see and what do you want to see? I'll go first:

Want:
-Girls who want to be boys (or girls who want to be between boy and girl). I see more mtf than ftm, is all! Although that could be me looking in the wrong places.

Not want:
-Comics that start with the two main characters meeting when they bump into each other or spill coffee on one another or get hit in the head with a soccer ball or some other physical comedy moment. And then there is the dreamy sequence of "why do I feel this way about them?" directly after. It is DONE!

Hope it's an okay topic - thought we needed some ball rolling!
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Aha !

Post  Avie on Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:26 am

Great topic !
For years I have been surfing online looking for LGBT-based webcomics and I came to the conclusion that there isn't that many; that are active anyway.

Wants:
I want the ultimate story of a hero/adventurer who happens to be lesbian. Don't get me wrong, I favor LGBT-based situations, but sometimes I just want a big juicy story with more than romance; a story with someone you follow from beginning to end with wonder.

Not Want:
Call me biased or whatever, but I just can't stand stories that involve "jumping" fences (from female to male romantic entanglements). This is just my preference though, don't spite me for it.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:08 am

Oh!! I am totally in agreement about both of your points, Avie! Some crazy magical epic where the world has to be saved, and the guy or girl "just happens" to be gay. A fully fleshed out world, creatures, long journeys ... love it.

And it is SO TRUE about the jumping fence stuff. The guy is positive he's straight, he has a girlfriend! and then ... all of sudden he's looking at another guy's butt and BOOM. "Am I .... gay...?"
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Avie on Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:36 am

tara wrote:Oh!! I am totally in agreement about both of your points, Avie! Some crazy magical epic where the world has to be saved, and the guy or girl "just happens" to be gay. A fully fleshed out world, creatures, long journeys ... love it.

And it is SO TRUE about the jumping fence stuff. The guy is positive he's straight, he has a girlfriend! and then ... all of sudden he's looking at another guy's butt and BOOM. "Am I .... gay...?"

Ha ! Yush ! Perhaps I will make this comic someday. Packed with adventure and magic and flannel ! HA. Kidding. Or am I ? Hm..

Precisely. In real life, we all discover our sexuality by circumstance but I just don't like it in stories/comics where a girl or boy spontaneously "jumps the fence" in a feeling of "Hm, let's try these apples.."
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:47 pm

There's a lot of internal strife is my problem with fence jumpers. But they try to simplify it and make it seem easy when it's not.

What I'd like to see more of -

- Strong, independent, high personality lesbians.
- male submissives who actually want to have sex the first time.
- transvestites. <.<
- Like Tara, FtM trannies would be interesting.
- Intersexed peoples.
- a gay male who actually acts like a stereotypical gay male. i.e. lisps, is bitchy, likes fashion, etc. I would find this hilarious.
- don't think I'm weird, I've heard these actually exist, but I'd like to see three people all in a committed relationship with one another. I call them a Triple.

What I'd like to see less of -

- girls who are sweet and quiet and their relationships are always quiet and nice and fluffy and they never fight or have issues. This is why Simply Sarah is win.
- porn trying to pretend it has a plot.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:37 pm

Absolutely brilliant, Rei! I'd like to see every one of those. I'll add them to my list of 'comics to do' ... Yes, that was entirely the reason for this topic, stealing cool ideas! Ahem, ahem.

ReiDavidson wrote:
- don't think I'm weird, I've heard these actually exist, but I'd like to see three people all in a committed relationship with one another. I call them a Triple.

Like Alan Moore! This, I think, would be especially cool. I've never seen that before in online comics. To see how the dynamic works, the relationships ... wow. That would make an awesome comic. Cough! *makes notes*

ReiDavidson wrote:
- girls who are sweet and quiet and their relationships are always quiet and nice and fluffy and they never fight or have issues. This is why Simply Sarah is win.

I was actually thinking about this a bit ago so it's funny you mention it. I was going to talk about it maybe in the Simply Sarah forum, but couldn't figure out how to formulate the thought. How realistically the relationships are portrayed in Simple Sarah. How nobody always communicates perfectly, how there are misunderstandings everyday, and how people have to learn to be in a relationship with one another. How there is real life that gets in the way of the sex scenes.

So basically what we're saying here is Simply Sarah is great.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:43 pm

Absolutely. :3 I can't think of a whole lot of comics I would have collaborated on the forum like this with.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Fly Hue on Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:06 pm

I would like to see less skinny, white chicks. Ethnicity is a problem with a lot of stories, even worse when there's the super obvious 'token' character, but I'd still really like to see more races depicted. It feels like there are so many areas untouched by GLBT stories; it's too easy to do something not done before because all the lesbian stories out there (as well written as they are! ;D) seem to have the same pair of skinny, white chicks with not a care in the world. Remember the period when Templar Arizona was posting on the Duck? Remember how SEXY Rae was? She was big and beautiful. And yes, she wasn't gay, but it goes to show that there's more than one type of gorgeous woman, and there's definitely more than one type of lesbian.
We're all beautiful here, but we don't all have to look the same either.
So more girls of color.
More Gorditas.

Also, there are too many stories where the main character gets her first crush the first time. That's so ... unrealistic! This is a world where even straight girls have to put up with rejection, and yet... here are a bunch of lesbians hooking up no big deal left and right. I'm sure there are plenty of writers who have had to really fight to find a suitable lover and have had to overcome the distress of loving someone that just could not love them back. Real life doesn't dive into relationships (most of the time...), so it makes a story less relatable when the writer caves to the desire to give their characters what they want and letting their feelings be returned. There are a few where the character HAD indeed gone through a rejection or a bad relationship or whatever, but it's usually given so little mention and is almost always far off in the past, they've moved on now, it's all whatever.
Bottom line, I want to see a story where the main character falls in love and.... their crush does not miraculously love them back.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Fly Hue on Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:09 pm

ReiDavidson wrote:
- don't think I'm weird, I've heard these actually exist, but I'd like to see three people all in a committed relationship with one another. I call them a Triple.
I am... actually working on this! They are not the focal point relationship (though initially they were... >_>;Wink. It's composed of two male characters and one female character, but it would be interesting to see this as an all male or all female relationship elsewhere!
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:14 pm

Fly Hue wrote:I would like to see less skinny, white chicks.

Ha ha yes, I win! Effie is totally a voluptuous black chick. XD And she's not what I'd call "token" either.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Joneko on Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:51 pm

Despite the direction Piper looks as if it might be going in right now, what I'd like to see most of:

Normal stories with characters that happen to be LGBT and who end up in a relationship at some point during the series.

Naoko Takeuchi is my goddess for this. Haruka/Michiru anyone? Or Kunzite/Zoisite? This woman knew what she was doing and honestly, I think a lot of my concept of the normalcy of homosexual relationships came from Sailor Moon manga and subbed anime at...probably too young an age for me to be watching and reading it.

That's what I think there needs to be more of, where homosexuality doesn't *have* to be the main focus of a comic so much as a comic happens to have a homosexual relationship. But then, that's one of those wouldn't-it-be-nice-if about society in general.

Also, less rape-that's-ok-because-they-really-wanted-it and all-of-a-sudden-I-love-you-so-rape-was-totally-ok plsthx.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:04 pm

Joneko wrote: Naoko Takeuchi is my goddess for this. Haruka/Michiru anyone? Or Kunzite/Zoisite? This woman knew what she was doing and honestly, I think a lot of my concept of the normalcy of homosexual relationships came from Sailor Moon manga and subbed anime at...probably too young an age for me to be watching and reading it.

I will proudly tell anyone that I have the same birthday as Sailor Uranus. (And Lewis Carroll and Mozart). But Sailor Uranus!! She is my favourite Sailor Scout of all time. My favourite anime character. When I first saw her on posters where I bought my illegal fansubs I thought she was a guy.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  wyldflowa on Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:12 am

Ah good thread and some good points!

That's what I think there needs to be more of, where homosexuality doesn't *have* to be the main focus of a comic so much as a comic happens to have a homosexual relationship. But then, that's one of those wouldn't-it-be-nice-if about society in general.
This so much. =_=;;;

I also can't stand stories of younger people "coming out" or embarking on their first homosexual encounter but then their parents are never involved. For many people parents are a big influence on their life and what their parents think of their current relationship has a big bearing on how a person acts - gay or straight. I can't stand when somene is conveniently an orphan just so parents don't have to be dealt with.

Also, comic where everyone is gay... or turns gay at some point... or is straight but in love with someone of the same gender... doesn't work that way darlings.

Avie wrote:I want the ultimate story of a hero/adventurer who happens to be lesbian. Don't get me wrong, I favor LGBT-based situations, but sometimes I just want a big juicy story with more than romance; a story with someone you follow from beginning to end with wonder.
Keep your eyes peels - I'm working on it. Wink Already at thumbnailing stage. I'd be working on it more if I didn't have a lot of other things to do... *itching to get started*


For those who want an excellent read involving transgender/crossdressing issues try doing a Google for Hourou Musuko by Shimura Takako. It wrenches my heart. ;_;
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Avie on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:41 am

wyldflowa wrote:Keep your eyes peels - I'm working on it. Wink Already at thumbnailing stage. I'd be working on it more if I didn't have a lot of other things to do... *itching to get started*

Oh snap ! I am looking forward to this !
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Avie on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:46 am

tara wrote: I will proudly tell anyone that I have the same birthday as Sailor Uranus. (And Lewis Carroll and Mozart). But Sailor Uranus!! She is my favourite Sailor Scout of all time. My favourite anime character. When I first saw her on posters where I bought my illegal fansubs I thought she was a guy.

Sailor Uranus inspired me greatly ! I believe she was the first character (that I was aware of in my youth) that made me recognize sexuality as a whole. I was simply fascinated by her looks. Ha ! I suppose that turned into envy at some point. XD
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Avie on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:55 am

Joneko wrote:That's what I think there needs to be more of, where homosexuality doesn't *have* to be the main focus of a comic so much as a comic happens to have a homosexual relationship. But then, that's one of those wouldn't-it-be-nice-if about society in general.

Also, less rape-that's-ok-because-they-really-wanted-it and all-of-a-sudden-I-love-you-so-rape-was-totally-ok plsthx.

I concur ! I suppose it depends what the readers are after. Many of them look for comics to identify with themselves. Some of them just seek a juicy comic with or without homosexual elements.

Ha. I also agree with the rape thing. Ugh.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:46 am

I'm guilty of making everyone gay sometimes. <.<;;
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:37 pm

Also, I want to see older couples. A lot of the time there are younger couples who are just starting out, which although is more "interesting" with all the drama that might entail, I'd like to see a well established couple who have been around a while and are sitting around on the couch eating cheese doodles and have kids to pick up from band practice. Or they are grandparents and have to help each other with morning pains. Or maybe I'm just weird being a girl who likes to see the smaller moments in comics! I do enjoy a good epic, but my yeah. Little stuff rules.

But this is kind of an ALL COMICS thing. It's really just a call for more variety.

And I can't wait for the new comics coming from the members of this place!!
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Fly Hue on Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:20 pm

tara wrote:Also, I want to see older couples. A lot of the time there are younger couples who are just starting out, which although is more "interesting" with all the drama that might entail, I'd like to see a well established couple who have been around a while and are sitting around on the couch eating cheese doodles and have kids to pick up from band practice. Or they are grandparents and have to help each other with morning pains. Or maybe I'm just weird being a girl who likes to see the smaller moments in comics! I do enjoy a good epic, but my yeah. Little stuff rules.

But this is kind of an ALL COMICS thing. It's really just a call for more variety.

And I can't wait for the new comics coming from the members of this place!!
For an older couple story I'd definitely recommend 'Grace' (Link) It's very well written, short, and it fiiiinally finished up just a few weeks ago so you don't have to wait for 2 years for the ending to come around like I did. The characters are not THAT old, I admit, but they are pretty well established lesbians and not "OMGILOVEAGIRLSOTHATMUSTMEANIAMGAAAAAYANGSTANGSTANGST!"

(Also, it has Black People. XDDD Oh dear god, I'm awful.)
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Rape to Love

Post  Fly Hue on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:11 pm

I'd have to admit that I'm guilty of that whole Rape to Love scenario, but in my defense I've seen the other stories that have done that and I feel secure enough to say that I think I've separated myself from that group. Namely, my main character encounters.... actual anguish for having been raped and feeling confusion towards the contradicting feelings of attraction as well as being aware that those feelings of attraction are pretty twisted... which leads to more anguish... DX I esteem myself in having not jumped from rape to "oh hey no biggie!". There is a very drawn out period to actually allow a transitioning of emotions.

My feelings on very bad plot lines is that even the stupidest ones can be pulled off if done right, like what Hopkins did with "The Composerz". ABSOLUTELY WRETCHED PLOT, but flipping amazing story telling!

Thinking back on my own story, I've double crossed the line into 'bad plot territory' by having one of those "Forbidden Love Between an Angel and a Demon" stories.
God I hate those. D<
I will never use that phrase because it's stupid and I don't want to even think about associating myself and my story with the "AngelXDemon" genre. There are just too many people writing those types of stories without having done any type of research on JudeoChristianIslamicorWhateverHaveYou Lore, and that's just the start of it.
I really like to think I've carried out my story in a much more... sensible kind of way.
Namely by not even feeling tempted to use the word "Forbidden". -gag-
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:41 pm

I always was jealous of how all the girls were like *swoon* over her. XD
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Fly Hue on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:21 pm

Wait, what? Over who?
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  tara on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:24 pm

Fly Hue wrote: For an older couple story I'd definitely recommend 'Grace' (Link) It's very well written, short, and it fiiiinally finished up just a few weeks ago so you don't have to wait for 2 years for the ending to come around like I did. The characters are not THAT old, I admit, but they are pretty well established lesbians and not "OMGILOVEAGIRLSOTHATMUSTMEANIAMGAAAAAYANGSTANGSTANGST!"

(Also, it has Black People. XDDD Oh dear god, I'm awful.)

Thanks!! I'll check it out!
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  ReiDavidson on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:39 pm

... I think it was Haruka... What was I on when I posted that?
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

Post  Felicity on Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:29 pm

ReiDavidson wrote:- don't think I'm weird, I've heard these actually exist, but I'd like to see three people all in a committed relationship with one another. I call them a Triple.

I'd like to see a webcomic about this, too. I've found a small handful of fanfiction/original stories about 'triples,' but a webcomic would be that much more awesome.

It does have a name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9nage_%C3%A0_trois (although that article is more about a relationship with men and women, but I believe it's the same term for a group of three who are all the same gender.)

I'd like to see less of lesbians being shy girls, and gay men being either really unpopular, or really popular. Maybe it's just me, but almost everything I come across casts these types of characters.
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Re: What you want to see less of, what you want to see more of.

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