Transgender Acceptance Issues

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:58 am

As most of you who know me know, I'm transgender. Pre-op, and in fact even pre-hormones thanks to the agonising speed of the NHS. (National Health Service for none-Brits.)

Now, I've not had any initially bad reactions. I've had a lot of "wtf" reactions, where people just DIDN'T know what to say- I mean, let's face it, it's a huge mental step from "she's a tomboy" to "she's really a man inside". It's a conclusion people rarely think of or expect. There were some people who congratulated me, which felt a bit wierd. (They said, "it'll make you happy, so good for you!" What'd make me happiER is to not need it, but ho-hum.) There were a few people who barely blinked. But some of these people accepted it less than they first appeared to.

These were Richard- my partner- Les, one of my oldest friends; and my mother. Now, again, some of you know Richard and I broke up because although he sort of said he accepted it, he didn't; he didn't support me, wasn't there for me, and refused to accept me as a man. After we broke up it made it hit home that he was on the verge of losing the person he'd loved for years, and that no matter what my body was like it was still me. He really worked to accept it and see me as who I really am, and we ended up getting back together. Happy ending.

Les, likewise, barely blinked at first- he definately saw it coming. At first he refused to treat me differently; but he eventually said, "I think I'm ready to call you "dude" now." That seemed like a positive step. But he's still refusing to call me Jase or Jason, instead calling me by my legal name (Jade), still thinking of me as a woman, still being snuggly even though he doesn't snuggle men, and- worst of all- still perving over me. (For the record, none of that means he has a crush on me- that's just how he is with women.) Last time he dragged me into his phone conversation about cleavage I nearly punched him, because I find it demeaning that he's still viewing me in that way. And- after he said he was finally ready to treat me as a man- he actually said he will NEVER accept me as a man until I AM one.

My mother's reaction is a little more complicated. My mother and I have a VERY bad history; she tends to be self-centred and determined to see the world as she wants it to be, not how it is. She refuses to accept even partial blame for our rocky history, insisting it's all my fault, etc. But when I called her, and told her about my gender realignment, she really started to redeem herself in my eyes. This is how the conversation went.
"Oh. Okay."
"Wait- oh, okay? That's it?"
"What am I supposed to do- try to tell you not to do it?
"Pfft, like that's ever worked."
"Exactly!"
"But seriously, mother, come on- you must have thoughts beyond 'oh, okay'. Your daughter told you she's gonna be a man!"
"Well... I guess I'll have to get used to having two sons, hm? Besides, I'm not that surprised."
I was shocked, and very happy. I called her probably once a month or so (which is a massive amount for me) to talk to her; and Richard and I recently went over to theirs to prepare a meal for them.
It was a nice afternoon and evening. The weather was gorgeous so we helped her with her pond issues and sorted it out; then we cooked the meal and it was all pleasant. After dinner, however, things turned sour when she first started telling me off for not getting in contact with my brother (who I've called, texted and visited a few times over the past six months, but he has NEVER initiated contact), went on to tell me she refused to accept me or view me as a man until I was one, and finished it with telling me what a bad offspring I've been. All in front of Richard who was very uncomfortable.

I don't really know what to do. Two people- one of whom I respected highly before this, and the other of whom I was trying to patch things up with- told me they'd accept it, only to turn around and tell me they wouldn't until I'm physically a man. Which would take between three and five years.
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  ReiDavidson on Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:12 pm

It's frustrating but mankind has a major have to see it to believe it syndrom.
avatar
ReiDavidson
Admin

Posts : 328
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 30

View user profile http://true2ourhearts.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Emilyelizabethx on Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:04 pm

These things take time, I guess. I'm sure they will all come round sooner or later Smile They're bound to, if they really love you, they have no choice but to accept it.
avatar
Emilyelizabethx

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-04
Age : 26
Location : London

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:26 pm

Lets face it: these things are hard to deal with for everyone.

You cant exactly look up "how to react when a friend friend/family wants to be a man" in your emotional libary. It is the same problem about the GL's, the rest of the world have very little experience in dealing with this, even less in the case of transgenders.

I can except all of you, and you too Jase (OFF TOPIC: you are loosing the prettiest women name in the world by the way: Jade is just beutiful), but that might be because this is the internet, and I have kind of set myself up for meeting people like you guys. But knowing someone for so long and then having to adjust like that is hard, few of us are raised where the insident of someone changing like that is something that happens often.

I can sort of see this problem from their point of view I am afraid. Of course they went ahead and said they had no problem with it, how could they react in any other way? They like you after all. But when everything comes down to it you cant figure out how you feel about something like that over night. Of course it is not nice of them to turn around like that, but it can be hard to find out how you actually feel about something like this. I think you need to give them time to get used to the idea, it might actaully take for the whole thing to be over before they can except it, but if they really like you they will have to except it sooner or later. we can only hope it is sooner :sad smile smiley:.

I hope you and Richard stay together and have the best of luck with your relationship Very Happy "Can you feel the love tonight" is playing on the TV right now, nice timing!

I believe I have already talked about this in here... or was that in PM? it might have been.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:04 pm

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. (Also- Greven, I smirked at your avatar. xD)

I think the hardest part is that they're saying they want to support me, then instantly saying they won't think of me as male until I am- which is doing the exact opposite. I haven't spoken to either party since the last time it happened, and as things stand now I don't know if I can- a part of me actually wants to say to them, "I don't want to see you or talk to you until you can view me as a man- and if that means breaking contact until I am one, so be it." It's a difficult time as it is, and I really don't need people who aren't going to be supportive around.
But I know that's not going to help the relationships any. Still, even the people who didn't see it coming have adapted remarkably well; my oldest friend's having issues but the most important thing is that she's trying. A friend who's house I visit often because it's close has stopped referring to me as a woman at all, and finally told his parents when he thought they were treating me differently to his guy friends. Even they have started calling me Jase and referring to me as a guy, and it doesn't really affect them at all.
But these two people, who claim to care about me and want to support me, can't try. That's all I can ask- I know you can't adjust overnight, but it's been six months since I "came out" to my mother and longer since I "came out" to my friend, and in that time, they haven't even started trying. They haven't tried to call me Jase or Jason, or to refer to me as a male, or treat me as one. They never correct themselves when they call me by name or talk about me- even to Richard or the friend mentioned above, who DO call me Jase and refer to me as a he.
I'm not expecting miracles, and I'm expecting it to take time. But after months, they're not trying- and that suggests they don't care. Actually, that's how it feels- like they're saying "I don't think you're worth the effort of trying" every time they say my name, or say "she", or treat me in a way that's obviously femanine-focused.
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Fly Hue on Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:42 am

Greven got me thinking, and I realized it's easy to accept you as FtM because we found out that you were right away when we met you. These other people have known you for years if not your whole life, so it can be an expectantly difficult transition, but I think for the future at least you can look to much better acceptance. I think you should become accustomed to letting people know when you meet them that you are a FtM so you won't have to deal with the looooong teeeeerm relaaaatiiiionshi-SURPRISE! all over again, but also be careful to not go too out of your way to mention it when you meet someone because I know that some people can find that sort of obnoxious... like you're looking to bring attention to yourself or something. Just like... be open and ready to drop it into casual conversation. I think bringing up your relationship with Richard would be a great way to break the ice on the subject actually.
I could just be acting overly optimistic because I'm gay and it's easier for me to be "You're pre-op? Okay!", but I really believe that things should be clearer sailing from here on out at least.
avatar
Fly Hue

Posts : 215
Join date : 2009-01-31
Age : 27
Location : San Antonio, TX

View user profile http://user.drunkduck.com/Fly%20Hue

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  NikiPaprika on Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:45 am

At first I was worried when I saw the title and thought of the most horrible reactions possible, but I was happy to see some optimistic reactions in your post! n_n
I think Fly Hue has basically said the same thing I wanted to say, so yeah n_n;

I think when it comes down to your mum, however, I suppose I can see both sides. I'm sure she really does care about you, but she's known you since you were a baby girl, and you always have been her little girl, her daughter, until recently. I'm not sticking up for your mother or anything, please don't take this the wrong way! n_n; But i'm just trying to see from her point of veiw. I think it's harder for your mother especially, because to her you have always been her daughter, and I'm guessing from the type of person she is, she wants to still refer to you as a girl because you are still physically a girl. She wants to think of you as her daughter, until you are no longer a woman but instead a man, and then she would have to treat you like a boy.
I'm not saying this is right, and I can be completely wrong because I don't know her personally, but it might be how she feels...I dunno. n_n;;
Please take whatever I say with a pinch of salt since I don't know anyone involved here very personally n_n;

But I'm glad that you do have friends who are supporting you through this tough time! Of course, it's not easy for everyone to fully support it, but to have your friends treating you now as how you'd like to be treated is great! 8D
avatar
NikiPaprika

Posts : 19
Join date : 2009-03-22
Age : 26
Location : In My Pants 8D

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:33 pm

...Urgh. What my mother WANTS.
Sorry- it's not what either of you have said, just... her. For so many years it was so hard for me to try to be who I wanted to be. She stopped me from cutting my hair short, from wearing nothing but boy's clothing, and made me wear a dress and make-up to events for my entire childhood. She always told me how thrilled she was because she always wanted "a little boy first, and then a little girl." She's never looked to who I am, it's always been who she WANTS me to be. And that's still the case. She still wants a little girl, regardless of the fact that I've never, ever, EVER acted like one or wanted to be one.
So for my mother, it's frustrating because yes, I understand why she feels as she does, but I think it's the most disgusting thing a parent can do to their child- that is, force them for their entire life to behave in a way that isn't natural to them.
I think now I have to decide what to do about it. I'm fed up of it, but it always causes so much hassle if I try to remove her to arm's length. Yet I really, really don't want anyone around me who's going to treat it as a phase, or refuse to see me as who I am because they have their personal view they want to uphold.
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:08 am

That is just not okay, the way I see it the parents are there to help their kids to become what THEY want to be, not to force them down a road they deem better for their kids.

My parents are a wierd mix, they do what they can to take me down the road they want, but as they realized that I was going down another path they did, if unvillingly, support me.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:53 am

Now you see why I said it shocked me so much when she essentially said she'd have to adjust to having two sons.
But she's not backing that up, thus destroying the respect she got from that.
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:52 pm

That is really a bullshit move, really low.
I find it hard to respect your mother at all right now, I wouldnt even do something like that to people I hate.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:08 pm

Eh, I hold no respect for my mother, but I don't blame her. It's weakness. She can't see or accept that the world might be different to how she wants it to be; she's too weak to.
It's pitiable more than detestable, in my opinion. And really, no worse than parents who do similar because they can't accept their kids are gay. (Not that that's not horrific- but it happens a lot more.)
In fact, when I said I was bisexual she had a similar reaction- "it's just a phase". It interrupted her personal view of how she wanted her world to be, so she refused it could be real. :]
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:33 pm

I just have a very hard time feeling anything but spite towards people who takes others down for reasons like that. It is really something that can get my blood boiling.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:23 pm

But she's not trying to "take me down". :0 She just sees things the way she wants to, and the way things REALLY are be damned.
...Just like lots of people, really. :]
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:35 am

I get what is going on dude, I just have a very hard time dealing with people like that. We are humans, we ADAPT if we dont we die, and if peope cant adapt even for the people they love (or at the very least know) then I cannot waste my time with them.

I am very openminded and I cannot stand people who are narrowminded.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Skyangel on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:24 am

Hi Jase Smile

Just caught up with the latest part of this thread here. This thing about your mother really is pretty common i think don't you? You seem to suggest as much yourself when you say:

But she's not trying to "take me down". :0 She just sees things the way she wants to, and the way things REALLY are be damned.
...Just like lots of people, really. :]

I think we are all familiar with the parent who is embarrassed by having a gay child, because it is prob the one thing they hoped neverto have to deal with, but if we look at the general attitudes of parents around us this is really sadly such normal behaviour. Away from gender and sexual identity issues I see parents who have planned for their kids to go to university while the kid is still in kindegarten; Men who want their sons to be the big succees that they were not, and the pianist who forces her son to practice every day and be as good as her even though the child is sick of the sight of the thing. Parents generally like to think their kids are some sort of a hobby that they can mould to their own wishes.
Parents quite happily and effortlessly tell me about how well their child has done in school, how well that child has done in their career, and how much that child has spent on their new house, or how many loos the new house has. Sometimes it seems to me that being proud of your child is just an excuse to bragg or show one-upmanship, and it's sadly very common now. If a parent has a child with an alcohol or drug prob, or is just delinquient in some way, we just dont expect them to be so forthcoming about it do we, and if they do tell you on the quiet, then usually the first thing they do is detach themselves from the child. 'I don't know where he gets it from' ... 'he was never brought up like that.' I think parents will always see their children as a reflection of themselves as a pose to individuals. It's logical to assume that the product of two individuals will retain something of the essence of it's parents, which is what evolution and reproduction are all about. We all say 'She's got her mothers eyes, or the family nose......He's good at art like his mum.' As parents they look for these things as you grow and relate you to their own lives constantly. So when that child suddenly shows individuallity that cant be explained then alarm bells start ringing. 'I'm not gay so why is my child???!!!'lol I think this common need to compare with our children, means that parents expect to be judged by parents in the same way. Because a blinkered father might say, 'so-and-so's son is gay, which is odd because his dad is such a macho man he would be THINKING that that is what friends and neighbours are now thinking about him.
I think this is what your mum is struggling with.

Skyangel
Admin

Posts : 39
Join date : 2009-01-26
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:01 pm

A lot of people are too weak to see things as they truly are; after all, it's much easier to turn a blind eye, as many people here will agree. (How long did it take you to accept you were gay/bi? I'm willing to bet it took longer for those of you in places where the society views it as "worse", or who had people close to them who wouldn't accept it.)
It doesn't make a person bad- after all, for over twenty years I refused to see or accept my gender problems. (When I was eighteen, I decided I would get a sex change if things with the guy I was dating fell apart. But at the end of it, I "forgot"- I wasn't ready to face it.) Does that make me bad? No, of course not. It meant I was not as strong then as when I did come to accept it. Same with other transgenders, and will bisexuals/homosexuals who find it hard to accept their sexuality.

But yes, a lot of people project their wishes and expectations onto their children. I have to admit, that when I have children (if, I suppose?) I will end up being quite a stern father- although not a cold one- and I can see myself expecting a hell of a lot from my children.

"If a parent has a child with an alcohol or drug prob, or is just delinquient in some way, we just dont expect them to be so forthcoming about it do we, and if they do tell you on the quiet, then usually the first thing they do is detach themselves from the child. 'I don't know where he gets it from' ... 'he was never brought up like that.'"
You know, that's a bit... off for me. I mean, I'll admit that it's true, but my parents seemed to have this endless pride with my brother (who is eighteen months older) and it took a great deal for them to accept he was flawed. At a very young age he turned to drugs and drink (don't ask me HOW he was getting it- perhaps by stealing the money from our parents?) and on his first week of senior school (for none-Brits, that's the final mandatory stage of school, from ages 11 to 16) he was caught truanting- for the entire week. He was first brought home in a police car not too long after that, arrested for shoplifting. He was brought home frequently by the police after that, but I don't imagine that he was caught half as often as he was doing wrong. He treated everyone at home with increasing disrespect and contempt, yet I was always the one complained of- to others outside the family circle, as well as to those inside. He had minimal punishments but I spent virtually my entire childhood grounded (rarely even knowing why.) He also ran up huge phone bills that I got the blame for. (Me! The five-second-phone-call person!) And until I left home, I didn't hear a word said against him.
I don't know about other parents- but with mine, they only had issues preaching the wrongs of their eldest child. Their youngest was shown no mercy in their ill-speaking. (Perhaps because I wasn't the delicate flower they wanted? I don't know.) Sometimes it's preached as "oh, woe is me, listen to the hardships I suffer from my offspring".

...Yeah, my family's majorly dysfunctional. xD
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  greven on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:30 pm

I get a lot more bitching than my brother too, but that is due to my brother being pretty much perfect in my parents eyes.
I know so much shit on my brother that you wouldnt believe it, because as a late night person I have seen him come home from parties and talked to him while he was drunk, this way I have found of stuff he didnt really want to tell. But where my sisters have seen and told on every single flaw I ever made, I on the other hand does not rat out on my brother like that. So when I miss school once because I miss the buss it is the top story at the dinner table in the evening because my rat of a sister didnt have anything else interesting to say and felt it was a good way to get attention. But I never told anyone about the time my brother almost got arested after being in a drunken brawl, or the time he smoked weed at a party (my parents would kill any of us if we smoked a fucking prince light). And due to my fucking code of secrecy my brother is still perfect, and I am still the fucking black sheep.

Yeah maybe this should be in the rant thread.
avatar
greven

Posts : 807
Join date : 2009-02-02
Age : 28
Location : I am most likely in front of my laptop in Denmark... or in front of my TV.

View user profile http://simongreve.deviantart.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Jase on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:19 pm

When it devolves into- well, ranting about family suckage, yeah. Yeah, it does. xD

I was trying to make a point that sometimes, bemoaning their offspring's misbehavoir is used as a pity tactic; but somewhere I derailed into ranting. >.>;
avatar
Jase

Posts : 95
Join date : 2009-02-21
Location : Hampshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  ladyfirst2010 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:31 am

You cant exactly look up "how to react when a friend friend/family wants to be a man" in your emotional libary. It is the same problem about the GL's, the rest of the world have very little experience in dealing with this, even less in the case of transgenders.

e-1 visa
Nelspruit hotels

ladyfirst2010

Posts : 6
Join date : 2010-04-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Transgender Acceptance Issues

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum